Have you entered a song into the American Idol Songwriter Contest?
Apr 20th, 2007 | By Joe Taylor Jr. | Category: General|
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If so, we’d love to hear it!
A number of songwriters commenting in a previous thread have started sharing their songs with us and with each other, as have posters over at Just Plain Folks.
Here’s an open thread to keep the discussion going about the American Idol songwriting contest until voting begins in a few more weeks!
Technorati Tags: music+business, american+idol, songwriting, contest
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April 20th, 2007 at 6:50 am
Donna-
The “confirmation” I got back after uploading last Sunday…..was an email thanking me for entering the contest and receipt for the Visa info regarding the $10 billing. Best of Luck to everyone.
April 20th, 2007 at 7:55 am
Donna,
You should have received a confirmation email if your song was submitted. Also I believe ther was some kind of confirmation page when the song was actually submitted. Hope you made it in….probably just a glitch.
April 20th, 2007 at 7:58 am
Another thing to keep in mind is this contest wasn’t announced as an “amature” song writing contest. Considering “the stage” AI presents, it seems reasonable to expect to be up against seasoned professionals.
It might be strange for you to see your song(s) in the final 20 sitting next to Elton John’s or Quincy Jones’s - if they have tunes “unencumbered” as it were, by any standing agreements.
April 20th, 2007 at 9:19 am
All true, Taterix…however, all the past idol finale songs were written by seasoned professionals and, yet, AI is looking for something better, as we’ve already discussed. I think the “spirit” of this competition WAS to find a gem by a completely “unknown” songwriter. But it wasn’t to the exclusion of professionals, either. The promo articles had the people from 19 Entertainment saying that they could imagine a 50-year-old mom sitting on a porch in Tennesse and coming up with a winning song. If that doesn’t scream “amateur”, I don’t know what does! I guess it would be possible, but like you said earlier, songwriting is a craft with certain rules and structure. A runaway tune, no matter how pleasant, that doesn’t reach a great chorus within a certain amount of time, is out of structure. And AI isn’t going to re-write anyone’s songs, because then they would become co-writers. I’m hoping Elton John and Quincy Jones stayed on the sidelines for this one!
April 20th, 2007 at 9:36 am
To Ann S….
Yeah, I totally agree with you there, whether or not radio has an impact, the songs have to have really great hooks, they have to make you feel something, and they have to sound like a real singer could sing them.
It is funny you mentioned that you listen to radio a lot. It seems that these days there are two kinds of people - those that still listen to radio and those that don’t. You are lucky, you can listen at work. I have never had a job where I could do that, so that might have something to do with why my radio listening days are over. But overall, it has a lot to do with what city you live in too. Here in Dallas, the radio market is an awful disaster. There is literally NO radio station here that has modern music by current bands (within the last year). Radio stations here all are narrowly managed into stereotypes. If you find a station that plays something besides classic rock, or rap/hip-hop, or country, they all play music from more than 2 years ago and they play the same 20 songs over and over. It is really disgusting. I think the best places for radio are the giant cities like New York and Los Angeles, where the industry is located. Digital radio still has literally no big percentage of the market and has not taken off like they had hoped it would, although I hear it is really cool from the few people I know whom have it. London also has a very big thriving radio market as well.
I used to love radio when I was a kid. Seems like every weekend we listened to the radio to hear Casey Kasem’s Top 40. Before MTV came along, that was the only way you got to hear new music, and it was so much fun to hear new great songs by new artists, no matter what genre they were. It was so much better back in those days. Then MTV became the big new artist vehicle. Now MTV is dying a slow death and now the big thing is the internet and i-Tunes. Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes….
The hardest thing about this contest is writing something that has wide appeal. I have heard quite a few of the songs that people have posted that they entered in this AI contest, and most of them are really bad. But there are a few really good ones too. And one or two were really awesome songs, damned well recorded, sung, etc. that would be great for radio, but they totally had nothing to do with Idol and therefore I think they won’t be picked. They also didn’t have wide appeal either. It is so hard to guess exactly what the judges are going to be looking for other than to speculate, which although as fun as I think it is to do so, really in the end is a waste of time. I think they will do what they said in the guide for sure - they will pick a song that has a typical Idol theme, one that has wide appeal to a wide age range, and one that is really emotional and has great hooks. That is a very fine line indeed for most songwriters. I would be willing to say that if we could hear all the songs entered, and only keep the ones that were really good sounding (great production, great singer, beautiful hooks) that 99% of those great songs would not have the Idol theme to them, so they will be thrown out on that alone. Writing a great song is not that difficult if you have the raw talent and determination to do so. But even if you can do that, writing something very specific like for AI is really much more difficult to get right. Most of what I have heard, even the great sounding ones, were songs that people had already written way before this contest started. I would love to just be able to hear songs that people had just written in the two weeks of the contest, like me and my friend Matt did. Now that would be something more impressive to me. But of course, being successful has nothing to do with luck, it has to do with being prepared when the chance comes, and having a fully produced song in your pocket ready to go for a chance like this does give you a certain advantage.
April 20th, 2007 at 9:47 am
to Taterix, in response to #3…
You are right, they didn’t say anything about this being an contest for amatures, but all contests are amature contests really. If you are a professional already, you are working in the industry and getting work and getting paid to do so. You would not need to enter contests like the AI contest, and probly wouldn’t do so anyway.
Although I think some semi-professionals will enter, I think AI is looking for a someone in the same position as the singers are on the show. New raw talent that is not over produced and not currently working in the industry.
By the contest rules alone, I think many people were confused. The big professionals, someone like Diane Warren, could totally enter this contest if they wanted. Every song they write has no publishing or distribution deal on it until someone buys the song from them, so they could enter. Some professionals do have contracts with publishing companies though, so some of them might not be permitted to enter under those legal terms.
Overall I think this is the coolest contest ever since AI started 6 years ago. I love all the reality shows that have people using their talents to compete. They all want people who are amatures, not professionals looking for publicity or a leg up. So we will have to wait and see what the songs are like when the Top 20 are announced. I can hardly stand to wait until May 2nd…..
April 20th, 2007 at 10:05 am
When I started thinking about how many entrants there were, I figured the judges were going to stop listening to a song after 30 seconds and move on if something didn’t grab them. I re-arranged my song so that the hook is the first thing one hears. Most songs, even great ones, usually start slow and fairly uneventfully but I figured that using that kind of song structure was a chance I couldn’t take.
April 20th, 2007 at 10:35 am
We start fairly slow on ours (click my login name for link to tune - “without you”). In retrospect, I would have gone with pushing it up another notch-and-a-half on the second verse. But we were working with a 48 hour deadline and nothing but the chord stucture and melody with which to work. All-in-all, I make no apologies, we’re please with our honest effort. At the same time I’m not kidding myself either- it’s a long shot, even with unlimited resources - time, tools, money, and talent.
But I agree with everyone, this is a coolest thing and you’re crazy not to take a shot - so that’s what we did. I just hope the A&R rep makes it to the first chorus - the rest, I believe, holds water for an AI audience.
April 20th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Does anyone know when the top twenty were to be announced?
April 20th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
To Rob, in response to #9…
Yes, the Top 20 will be announced on May 2nd, that is also when the online voting begins.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Jeanie:
This is in response to the comments made by Jeffery (4/18, #16 on the previous page) concerning your situation. (Jeffery…you make some good points, and I don’t necessarily disagree with everything you say; but I’m not sure that your comments are definitive from a legal perspective.)
First of all, a song, as originally composed, does not have to include notation of chord accompaniment in order to be a legally valid composition subject to copyright. It could consist, for any number for reasons, simply of melody and lyrics. (I hold copyrights on a couple of such pieces myself.) There is also the point of view that given the structure of Western tonal music and the natural aural relationship between notes in a particular scale, the logical harmonic progression of a song is inherent in the melody. So if someone “figures out� the basic chords that should accompany your song, it could be argued that they are simply uncovering what is naturally there, not creating anything new from the standpoint of composition. Of course, there can be variations. You can add intervals to a basic triad, producing a different chord, or use passing chords from one point to the next…but now we’re drifting into the realm of arranging. As far as arranging goes, people write new and different arrangements for existing songs all the time; and even though the instrumentation, harmonic structure, etc. may differ from other arrangements and from some original version of the song, it’s still the same song. An arranger cannot claim co-authorship of the song itself simply based on having written an arrangement, even if it’s the first full arrangement ever done for a new song.
On the other hand, certain aspects of instrumentation and arrangement might, in some circumstances, be considered to be part of the base composition. One case in point is the recent legal battle over the old Procul Harum song, “A Whiter Shade of Pale�. The original organist for the band sued the credited authors and the publisher, claiming that he was a co-author and had been deprived of his rights. The claim was based on the fact that he was the one who came up with the distinctive organ solo that is such a memorable part of the song as originally recorded. The defendants countered that his contribution was simply one aspect of the arrangement, and should not be considered part of the basic song. In a ruling that surprised a lot of people, the judge declared in favor of the organist, stating the opinion that the organ solo was indeed an integral part of the composition, for copyright and royalty purposes. Does this establish a precedent that will allow any musician to successfully claim co-authorship if they add something to a song in the studio or in performance? Probably, and hopefully, not; but it is something to keep in mind.
Regarding your particular situation, Jeanie…well, it depends. Per U.S. copyright law, once you compose a song and fix it in some tangible form (write out the music and lyrics, or make a sound recording), a copyright is considered to exist, and you, as the author, are the copyright owner. (The act of registering the copyright with the Copyright Office does not create the copyright, but it is recommended as the best way to ensure legal protection.) From what you said, it sounds like you did make a recording of yourself singing the song, prior to working with your musicians. If so, then you have a copyright. After that, if all that these musicians did was to work out the chords to provide accompaniment for your American Idol demo, then they probably would not have any legitimate claim to co-authorship. (They might claim you owe them something in return for their services as arrangers and performers, but that’s not the same as being co-owners of the copyright.) On the other hand, if they did add something distinctive to the work that could be construed to be an integral part of the composition, or if during the course of arranging the song they, with your concurrence, made any significant changes to your melody or lyrics, then it’s possible that they could have a legitimate claim to co-authorship. It’s difficult to venture an opinion without hearing your original composition, and comparing it to how it was presented in your AI demo. Since this is such a legal grey area, a qualified entertainment lawyer would be the best person to make such a call. (And even that might not be a definitive opinion. I’m sure the defendants in the Procul Harum case had legal counsel who assured them they were in the right.)
I would recommend a few things to you, Jeanie, for the future. 1) Learn enough about music so that you can write out the music and work out the chords for your songs yourself. 2) If not, then engage someone to do this work for you, or collaborate with a co-author who is a trained musician. 3) Otherwise, register your copyright as soon as a song is completed. (You should do this anyway.) They will accept a sound recording, even if it’s just you singing, in lieu of musical notation, with accompanying lyric sheet. 4) Be careful who you work with, and, as Jeffery suggested, make sure you have appropriate legal agreements in place with any collaborators, arrangers, studio musicians, etc. 5) Keep in mind that the comments you find on a discussion website like this, though they can be very helpful, are anonymous postings from people whose professional background, experience and credentials are unknown to you (including me). So…6) Learn as much as you can about the business of music and the legal aspects. The book Jeffery mentioned by Don Passman is an excellent source. And…7) Always consult with an attorney and/or other qualified professionals when it comes to the trickier and more critical aspects of your career. Best of luck!
Bob
April 20th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
I was wondering how do I listen to some of the songs people have entered?
April 20th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Somebody asked if the Top 20 won’t know who the winners are until they post them. I’m pretty sure they will know ahead of time because the registration form asked for your phone number and said, “This is in case we need to contact you if you made the Top 20.” I’d say it sounds like a sure think that they’ll contact you but then again, so much else of what the website said didn’t really happen either…
April 20th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
I gotta a believe they will contact the top 20 at least a week before voting. They will probably need to deal with some contractual stuff plus the will probably do some due diligence to make sure none of the songs/writers are encumbered.
April 20th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Here is a poor mans copywrite. Take your recording with your lyrics and put them into a padded manila envelope or a box and seal it with paper tape. Take it to your local post office and have them date stamp over the seamed edge of the tape and then mail it certified mail back to yourself. Use paper tape so they can tell if it has ever been opened. I don’t know how legal this is but it’s sure proof of when you wrote it.
April 20th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
I would be very surprised if they haven’t already contacted some if not all of their first choices for the Top20. I don’t know for sure. But, when you’re running a first class organization like 19Entertainment and you need to get masters and have contracts signed and returned, you don’t want to wait until the last minute. I could be very wrong and they are sitll having a hard time picking only 20. Which is really good news for all concerned.
April 20th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
To Bob, in response to #11…
Wow, I had never heard about the Procul Harum situation, but then again I don’t know anything about them other than the fact that they are a band LOL…But I agree with the judge 100% only if there was no “musician for hire” agreement between the main writers/producers and the organist. I am betting that they did not have that organist sign one of those, and of course if he came up with a dope solo in the middle of the song, that makes it even more in the organist’s favor. I will bet Procul Harum won’t make that mistake again. And neither will the organist.
But I agree with you, none of us are professional legal council by any means, but it sure don’t hurt to be aware of the pitfalls before hand.
And as far as melody and chords, yeah, melody definitely implies chords 100%. But the copyright of a sung vocal melody has to be proved within reasonable doubt, and if someone intends to have music put to their melody, then they have to show that they never intended to have music on the track, and they have to make sure the person who put music on the track understood that without a doubt, and there was some agreement (verbal or paper) stating such intent like “musician for hire”. Basically, it all has to be talked about and discussed up front and agreed upon. Otherwise, you are open to being sued by your friendly neighborhood entertainment lawyer. And it looks good from a legal standpoint if you look like you have good intent and have taken all reasonable legal measures and that you are not out to prevent someone from their rights in the process. Of course, even if you have every legal right to your track, anyone who worked on it can for any stupid reason try to sue you for rights to money garnered from the receipts, but you can minimize those chances as long as you take care of business up front.
I am pretty lucky because my friend Matt and I work together on everything we do, so it is 50/50 with us. Our intent is to work together, not be solo artists. But if we wanted to work on solo material, we would have to make it perfectly clear that is what we want to do, otherwise, legally, anything we write could be intended for our collaborations in the hands of an adept lawyer.
We just gotta take care of business and our interests and show professionalism as best we can. I was in shock when I read the D Passman book way back in 1994, but I am glad that I have that info in the back of my mind and feel more comfortable working with anyone now.
April 20th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
I would be very surprised if they haven’t already contacted some if not all of their first choices for the Top20. I don’t know for sure. But, when you’re running a first class organization like 19Entertainment and you need to get masters and have contracts signed and returned, you don’t want to wait until the last minute. I could be very wrong and they are sitll having a hard time picking only 20. Which is really good news for all concerned.
April 20th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
I have a list of quite a few (at least 50) of the contest entries I’ve been able to find via different search methods. If you go to my blog (linked above) and scroll down a couple posts, the list is called “American Idol Songwriting Contest Entries” or something cryptic like that. If you have a song you’d like added to the list, please leave a message in the comments!
April 20th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
I’m so upset that they won’t be re-recording the song. I’m a total beginner to song-writing contests. The website went on and on about how they are not judging your singing, they are judging your song. Fine, I’m sure professionals will be able to get past my pitchy vocals, but not joe public. I write songs that are not necessarily intended for my voice - songs for men, for sopranos, for gospel singers, etc..
As if this matters, by my calculations if they are getting songs at the rate of 500 in 9 hours, there must be at least 10,000 entries. But a girl can dream!
April 20th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Wow, I didn’t realize that they were looking for polished recordings. We have good lyrics and melody, I hope they’re not lost amongst some of the stronger, more polished recordings. I ended up doing the vocal and I’m a writer not a singer. Anyway, we had a blast and I look forward to seeing the top 20. Good luck to all.
April 20th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
I wanted to say to you guys that I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your post. I felt that I should say something since all of you have taken the time to make this competition a little easier for me. I too submitted 2 songs. One I did alone and the other I co-wrote with my singer (who she also submitted 2 of her own songs). Both songs were written to spec. and came out very well. I would post them, but legally I’m afraid of what could happen if by some chance I made the top 20. I’m a composer and have quite a few published titles, but none are “pop” titles. It felt really good to write a “pop” piece since I hadn’t done that in over 10 years. The reason I had stopped writing pop music was because they seemed to only end up in a drawer with no outlet. However, with choral (or serious/”classical”) music you can easily submit pieces to publishers since they mostly accept unsolicited material. SO, I got the choral pieces off the ground and stuck with it.
Luckily, this awesome competition has offered a possible “real” listen to a popular piece –too cool! I read about the possible 30 second rule and I tend to agree. I feel that if the reviewers make it to the end of your piece, your are probably in the top 20 -OR- a least moved to the “possible” top 20 pile.
I kept my recording simple … only piano and vocals. I didn’t use and overly complex harmonic structure as I didn’t wanna take away from the melody and message. However, I left room for the AI folks to work their “idol magic”. I opened up with a strong line of the first verse: “Looking back on my life I see my dreams, staring at me. Like an old friend giving me strength to carry on and find my wings.”
The title of that song is: NOW I CAN FLY
The second song is titled: I WANT TO BE YOUR LOVE
that one starts as: “The day has come to show you, how hard the rode has been. For son long I have wanted this, I hope this dream never ends.”
Once again, thank you all for sharing your thoughts and expertise. I found this site while googling to find out more information about the contest.
Good luck to all!
April 20th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
With all the discussion about giving AI a song that both the top two contenders could sing, I have to admit that I threw all caution to the wind…I wrote one song for Melinda (conceiveably only Lakisha or Phil could also sing it credibly because it’s about life getting in the way of what you were put here to do, and finally realizing that), and I wrote the other song for Jordin. She’s the ONLY one who could sing the song because it’s young and upbeat and only she has the vocal range to sing it. I KNOW what they asked for, but time and time again, the show proves during “theme” nights that not every singer can sing every song, no matter what the “arrangement”. I also took the chance that Melinda and Jordin would be the last two standing, and that their large fan bases would be proportionately represented in the songwriting votes. I’m sure that anybody at AI who listens to my song submissions is going to know who fits them. If that alone makes them get the ax, so be it. Crazy? Yes. Fun? You bet!
April 21st, 2007 at 12:04 am
When considering songwriting: The more one is concerned about copyrights, the less trouble they should find protecting them.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:52 am
Dear Fellow Writers,
I have listened to a couple of your IDOL submissions. I was particularly fond of “The Finest Hour”…great voice too.
Help me. I realize this is a shot inthe dark that they’d even read or respond to the this desperate e-mail, but, does anyone have the e-mail to 19 entertainment, the one they had listed, but, is no longer on there?
Please pass it along if you can. Check out my two entries, if you’d like at, my space.com/stephanierenaejohnson
God’ll Get Back Our Souls
Gonna Remember You
Best Wishes to all of us dreamers AND doers!
April 21st, 2007 at 1:16 am
I have enjoyed these threads as well. I, too, had the Safari problem, which I circumvented by using my brother’s PC to enter. Then I was thrown for a loop when I received my receipt and noticed there was a space for a billing address for my CC, but I hadn’t entered one, nor did I recall having been asked for it. My mind was eventually put to rest when I looked online at my CC statement and saw that 19 Entertainment had indeed taken the $10. Did anyone else have this same worry?
I wonder if they will use Autotune on our entries if they make it to the Top 20. That would be nice…
April 21st, 2007 at 7:43 am
All:
I have heard back from 19 Entertainment regarding the posting of submitted songs on the web. (No - it wasn’t to contact me that I was in the Top 20!!)
There are no issues with any songwriter posting submitted songs on websites, myspace accounts, etc. This will NOT eliminate a songwriter from the competition.
Thought I’d share that with this group since I voiced this as a concern a couple of days ago.
Joe V.
April 21st, 2007 at 7:52 am
Here’s my entry. It’s the 2nd song on this page called “Blooming”:
http://www.teresasmithmusic.com/music.html
My wife Teresa sings it.
Great song Tatrix. Best of luck!
Btw, Anne-Marie, I doubt they’ll do anything to the sound files they receive it. Plus, unfortunately, it’s impossible to use autotune on a vocal that’s already been mixed into the track.
Dave Smith - http://www.iconmusicstudio.com
April 21st, 2007 at 7:56 am
Hey guys, it sounds like we have a lot of excited songwriters out there waiting like crazy for May 2. I dont agree with the comment that 19E would have already contacted the proposed top 20. We might not know at all until they are posted on 5/2. They might notify them by email the day before. As far as contracts to sign and all that, there shouldnt be any, only for the winner. When you submitted your song, you gave them all the permission they need to use it on their site. I think only the winner will be signing something. Good luck to all.
April 21st, 2007 at 8:33 am
Bob Z,
The contest ended Wed. morning and AI probably has about 20 thousand songs to go through. Given the last minute, low priority feel of this whole songwriter contest, I don’t think they will have picked have their final 20 until about next Wed. That will still give them 1 whole week to get everyone’s master file, which they warned everyone to have “immediately”available if contacted. As far as contracts, I think you are already locked in tight, as far as their rights to your song , by that little Agree to Terms block you clicked off when you entered this contest and they don’t need to do any negotiating with anyone.
April 21st, 2007 at 9:02 am
Here is a link to a myspace account I just created this morning (or click on my name above):
http://www.myspace.com/joevitullo
I have a simple $150 4-track digital recorder, a couple of mics and a Roland XV-88 keyboard — that’s all I used for the demos that are on the site.
April 21st, 2007 at 10:24 am
The title of my song is “I gave it my all” and if the A&R person gets to the chorus I am positive they will listen to the whole song. My only fears are that the quality of the demo is really bad: voice and piano over a computer mic, and also that the chorus begins 39 seconds into the song and given what people here have said about the 30 second rule… I also worry that the melody of the verse may not be strong enough to keep him/her there that long.
I would post the song but the I bombed in the performance of the demo that I submitted. Pitch problems and lyric screw ups. Also the production values of the demo as such that I would not want to put that online just yet. I am going to re-record it with a better vocal performance and if I am satisfied I will post the song. I am also scheduled to record a professional demo in a couple weeks… after that is done I will post both. In the mean time, in lieu of the song itself I have described the song is as much detail as I can.
The song clocks in about 3 mins 10 seconds. The structure of the song is:
Piano Solo Intro: 0:00
Verse 1a: 0:06
Verse 1b: 0:17 (identical to 1a different lyrics)
Pre-chorus: 0:28
Chorus: 0:39
Verse 2a: 1:11
Verse 2b: 1:22
Pre-chorus: 1:33
Chorus: 1:44
Bridge: 2:08
Chorus: 2:30
Coda: 2:54
End: 3:10
Either Melinda or Jordin is going to win so I wrote this song with either of them in mind, but I think Melinda would really nail this song. There’s a line in there for her… “That your place is in the shadows”. But Jordin would hit a home run too.
It is a traditional Power Ballad a la Whitney Houston but I try tell a story too which makes the verses, I worry, a little wordy.
Verse 1a talks, albeit more poetically than I do here, about why they entered the contest — the dream to be a star.
Verse 1b acknowledges that she is not alone in this dream — millions of other people also have that same dream.
Prechorus is the standard “believe in yourself and you’ll succeedâ€? sentiment.
The chorus talks about how she gave it her all and that giving it your all changes you and that’s how she was able to make it.
Verse 2a she talks to the listener about how life writ large is just like the journey she has just been on.
Verse 2b continues the idea of 2a by noting that people will always tell you that you can’t do this and you can’t do that and this is where the line “Your place is in the shadows” comes.
Pre chorus is again “I believe in myself and if you fall get back up� sentiment.
Chorus is the same as above — I gave it my all, it changed me and I made it.
Bridge is a summery of the whole song.
Chorus is the same — I gave it my all, it changed me and I made it
Coda is I gave it my aaaaaaaalll!
I think it is a great song and I am definitely going to drop the $ to make a professional demo of it. The Chorus is very catchy and I know this because my girlfriend who doesn’t know a thing about music but listens to the top 40 radio stuff was humming it days after. So here’s hoping the A&R person gets that far into the song. Good Luck to all!
April 21st, 2007 at 10:29 am
What does it mean to give them the master file immediately? I thought I sent it to them the day I entered??
April 21st, 2007 at 10:29 am
Just another writer chiming in that no one I know has heard anything yet. I’m a little peaved that they were unclear about whether you could enter more than one song! Oh well. Good luck to everyone.
April 21st, 2007 at 10:36 am
I think they will have to notify the top 20 around next wednesday april 25 becasue all top 20 will have to sing a different agreement than we all did. And if someone refuses to sign it they will have to offer other people. So I suppose it would be fair to have a day to consider the offer. So that means they have until friday to make substitute offers and acceptances. Then the weekend to “clean” the entries etc and ready for Tuesday voting.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:07 am
Waiting is the hardest part I guess. But it’s been good just to read everybody’s comments. And the songs sound great. I wish everyone good luck. I don’t think that there were many more than 10,000 songs submitted. Each A&R person on the team was probably assigned so many and then they would bring their picks back to the team where they would make that final decision. I agree that this Wed. would be the date that they want to have everyone in the top 20 notified. And all Top 20 finalist will sign a publishing contract and recieve an advance against Royalties. It would be nice if they would send the rest of us an Email that the top 20 have been chosen.
I submitted two songs. But the first one would probably have the better chance. I wish that I could have had a female singer on the first one. It is probably the only song that I have written that I can’t sing convincingly. Still I’m confident about that one. Good Luck to You all!
http://zebox.com/cgi-bin/artists/dl.cgi?daydreamproject_-_Beyond_The_Harbors_.m3u+qp+m1
http://zebox.com/cgi-bin/artists/dl.cgi?daydreamproject_-_Punch_The_Air.m3u+qp+m1
April 21st, 2007 at 11:17 am
Heard many submissions, great work guys! Me and my girlfriend Anna wrote something that we think fit the theme of the show, we only sent this one in because they were so unclear about how many can be sent in, oh well. For anyone who would like to hear our submission go to annafleshler.com………….click live then click demo, her site is great as Anna also has samples of her art as she is also a painter. All feedback is welcome you can reach me at psilos25@aol.com or reach Anna at her website. Goodluck everyone, ciao
April 21st, 2007 at 11:20 am
You have to tip your hat to 19Entertainment. It’s conceivable that they have found themselves with a couple of hundred original unencumbered tunes that they like a lot.
Considering how many artists they have with their company and (perhaps) a constant need for new material….they may just find themselves in a great position today. All for the cost of working their poor A&R ppl to the bone. Other record companies may sit up and take notice and review their policies with regards to unknown material….but it may be too late for them….because everyone has already sent their great stuff to 19Entertainment.
Again….best of luck to all.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:21 am
Ah one more thing, may favorite art piece that Anna has can be found at annafleshler.com then by clicking blog at the bottom of the page, a personal favorite!
April 21st, 2007 at 11:45 am
Ironmanbob:
The “poor man’s” copyright you describe (#15) is something of a musical urban legend that’s been around for many years. It is not recognized in U.S. Copyright Law as proof of copyright ownership, at least not on its own. Registration with the U.S. Copyright Office is the only evidence that is accepted in a court of law “prima facie” - legalese for “if you’ve got this and no one can contradict it or prove it false, then its the only evidence you need”. Does that mean that if you have not officially registered your copyright then someone can steal your work and there’s nothing you can do about it? No, but it does mean that you’re going to have to work harder to prove your case. Something like this “poor man’s” copyright might be accepted as one piece of evidence, but you will probably have to corroborate it with other evidence.
Bob
April 21st, 2007 at 12:10 pm
David V.,
In your post to Bob Z., you talked about AI having “rights” to the submitted songs. This seems to be worrying a lot of people. Maybe some of you can CHIME IN PLEASE, but I don’t think they are talking about copyrights (meaning song ownership?)…I think they want just publishing rights. If you are the writer of the music and lyrics, you are the sole copyright owner of the song and unless you sell or assign that copyright to someone else, it’s yours forever. I do not believe that any of us “signed over” our ownership of our songs in this contest. That would have to be a significant legal transaction not open to interpretation by either party. I don’t have the “contract” printed out (too late now), but I thought the top 20 were the only ones to “sign away” (for lack of a better term) only the PUBLISHING rights for their songs for a period of 10 years. That would give AI the right to record and distribute those songs in any way they see fit for the next ten years (or NOT do anything with them, but they would have the first right of refusal if a top 20 writer went to them and said they had someone else who wanted to publish their song). If this is the case, to me, that’s not a problem because AI is a virtual “hit-making” machine and if they want to keep your song around to be used at the right time for the right person, that’s OK with me. Who better to babysit it? And remember, that is just for the top 20. The other songs will only be kept in storage with no binding contracts. If those songs find a publisher, AI is not going to stop them. I remember on the CMA awards last year, Brooks and Dunn won song of the year and they brought up on stage with them a minister (I recall) who had co-written the song with them. I am sure that guy is “sittin’ pretty” right now with songwriting income royalties from album/single sales and BMI/ASCAP.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:16 pm
I’ve listened to a lot of the entries posted here and on Lydia’s blog. My thoughts:
There are some real standouts musically. Impressive melody’s and production on many songs. That being said . . .
I have yet to come across any standout lyrics. To be honest, I am finding most of the lyrics to absolutely cringeworthy. I don’t mean to offend anyone, and I won’t call out any in particular, but it seems as if almost every song is an ultra-generic take on dreams coming true, you believed in me, i’ve made it this far because i didn’t give up, this is the night, etc.
Now I realize that previous Idol songs (Do I Make You Proud in particular) have been an ultra-generic cheesefest, so maybe this is exactly what they are looking for. But as a rabid consumer of popular music, this is not what I want to listen to. I am really hoping that at least some of the Top 20 ends up being songs that address the dreams/emotional journey theme in a more subtle or tangential manner. Am I the only one who feels this way?
Regardless of my opinions, congratulations to everyone who put in the effort to make an entry. Everyone should be proud of what they accomplished.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Hey guys! This is so exciting.
Very excited for all of us.
I entered a few songs but the one I’m most excited about is one my dad wrote called “My Life Is Mine” which my family band performed (The Veltz Family [.com]). Take a listen! This youtube link is to a video my brother and I made a long time ago featuring sports moments in history set to the song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68hvVKYKgoA
Enjoyed listening to all your songs as well. I’ll be back to check in for more!
GOOD LUCK AND CHEERS!
-Laura of The Veltz Family
April 21st, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Just thought I would post this (hoping for some kind of feedback, positive or otherwise).
http://mrmayers.memebot.com/tonight.mp3
April 21st, 2007 at 1:19 pm
This forum is a nice way to keep busy while awaiting the results of our entries. Thanks to all who have posted songs and lists so we can all see what has been submitted to the AI contest. I must have listened to 50 or more songs but is nothing compared to the thousands I’m sure they received. It is my own personal opinion as a music listener that “dreams” “I believe” “proud” and many other obvious lyrics in these songs should have been kept out. These are overused and boring. What makes a good song is to keep the listener interested. You can make your point without stating the obvious! In almost all the songs I’ve heard for this contest there was always the most important part missing… THE HOOK….
Not one song came out and grabbed me, some had the right beginnings but left me waiting for the climax of the song that never came. I don’t mean to be cold or rude to anyone, that is not the intention of my post. However, for $30 or so you can buy a songwriters book that may help many of you unlock or break through these pitfalls. All of the songs I heard have Smash Hit potential but they need reworking. Never settle for your first draft. Look at it under a microscope. If it was easy everyone would do it!
April 21st, 2007 at 1:25 pm
I tried posting this earlier and I forgot to capitalize the title of the song. Oh well. I’m just looking for comments…
http://mrmayers.memebot.com/Tonight.mp3
April 21st, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Steve,
I couldn’t agree more. The use of cliche material in many of the AI songwriter submissions I have heard is beyond me. While I stand by this, I also agree that writing music is most often a positive and therapeutic creative outlet for individuals, and can prove to be an excellent bonding experience for a band or group. Some of the music may not be impressive to everyone, but what counts is that it is impressive to the people who write it. I personally write music for myself, and if other people happen to like it, that makes it that much better. I write always from personal experience, not like a fictional movie for the purposes of entertainment created in a writer’s mind from scratch. That way I know two things if people are listening to my music. One, they like the way it sounds. Two, they are interested in the way I talk about my life. I often feel that people that get caught up in writing cliches throughout a piece of music do not sound as if they were written through personal experience, and therefore a lack of connection is heard/seen by the audience between the performer and the very song they wrote. Imagery is fantastic, but when it is overplayed or becomes unrealistic and too figurative, the song becomes a jumble. Subtleties should be able to speak for themselves, and the phrases in the songs should help paint the pictures without the use of actual words describing such events as common occurrences. This, in my humble opinion, is when the songs begin to become “cringeworthy” as you put it. I don’t claim to be the best songwriter, but like I said, I write music for me, to help me through events in my own life, and so far some people seem to enjoy it. Isn’t that the most anyone can really ask for? Winning this competition is more of a dream than a reality, statistically speaking, for all of us, so we should all just be proud we did our best.
April 21st, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Steve,
I think you’re right. Some of the melodies are really memorable (good work guys and gals), but for the most part, the lyrics are superficial. If a writer can find a way to say, for instance, “the road was tough” without actually saying “the road was tough”, it’s amazing how much depth and interest and meaning can be communicated. The former “cheese” is NOT what this contest what about, IMO, because the rules gave much emphasis to lyric writing. They even had a tutorial on lyric writing at the Songwriter site! Am I willing to put my money where my mouth is, you ask? Well, I’d love feedback on my songs just like anyone else, but copyright stuff and the fact that I won’t open a #@Space account (’cause I won’t allow my kids to) keeps my songs a secret for now.
April 21st, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Hi everyone -
Great blog (just found it) and great work, everyone. I do wonder if in fact the lyrics will be the first thing looked at and THEN the music if the lyrics measure up. That way, the screeners don’t have to listen to each mp3 and they can weed through songs quickly to see if the lyric is on the mark?
April 21st, 2007 at 2:12 pm
I am afraid that everyone seems to be taking all of this too seriously. I mean, just like everyone else, I would love to be in the top 20 and have my song chosen, etc. but also you have to look at the AI venue and realize that it is mostly a POP venue, where lyrics like “the road was tough” is what people want to hear on the radio. They want to feel like someone understands their hardships too. And some of the more heavy-handed lyrics are so specific or “lyrical” that they don’t play, practically, to the general audience.
Who knows, though.
I put my song on a myspace account and would, of course, love any/all feedback.
It’s called SHINE.
http://www.myspace.com/mollysamericanidoldreams
April 21st, 2007 at 4:34 pm
I have a feeling some people didn’t read the T&A very carefully. A few things it says answers many of the concerns I’m reading on this site. It states:
2. By entering the Competition you grant to 19 Entertainment the following irrevocable rights throughout the World:
1. the right to copy and store the Song, the Recording and the Lyric Sheet in any and all media;
2. the right to copy and reproduce the Song, the Recording and the Lyric Sheet in any and all media for the purposes of the Competition (as defined below);
3. the right to publicly perform the Song and the Recording in any and all media for the purposes of the Competition;
4. the right to record and authorise others to record the Song for the purposes of the Competition;
5. the right to synchronise the Song and the Recording with visual images for the purposes of the Competition;
6. the right to use your name, likeness and biographical information and those of each Co-Writer for the purposes of the Competition; and
7. the right to authorise others to do any or all of the above.
So basically they can do whatever they want with your song for the COMPETITION just because you entered. Even if they want to make a gag reel out of the poor songs for the show, you have given them that right by entering. It also says:
5. If the Song is selected by 19 Entertainment as one of the Top 20 Songs, you (and all Co-Writers) will be required to enter into a further agreement with 19 Entertainment (“the Publishing Agreement�) as a condition of you continuing in the Competition.
Now to me, that sounds like you have to fill out some paperwork if you make the TOP 20. Not to mention that it also says:
6. If the Song is not selected by 19 Entertainment as one of the Top 20 Songs the Song will be held in reserve should the Writer of any of the Top 20 Songs fail to enter into the Publishing Agreement.
That right there says, if someone says no to the paperwork then they will pick someone else for the TOP 20. If they follow their Terms and Conditions, they are definitely going to contact the Top 20 beforehand. They can’t post them for voting, have someone win, and then the person say, “Um no, I won’t sign that.”
Wow, all that jumbo I learned in High School English about using references was really worth something.
April 21st, 2007 at 5:34 pm
Steve, I agree. I thought I might be the only one thinking that. Maybe the A&R guys have some kind of lyrics filter they apply to filter out the cliche-laden songs before they have to spend time listening to them. You know, if the filter finds excessive use of the word “dream” combined with the word “believe,” “all my life” and “in your eyes” it filters out the song. Hehehe. Just kidding, I’m enjoying everyone’s songs, including the ones about believing in your dreams no matter what.
April 21st, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Hey all,
I really enjoyed “Without You” by Planet Sunday!
On another note, I want to make a comment on the whole raw song spirit of this contest. I agree that this would be ideal for the many reasons mentioned above by others.
HOWEVER, here me out, my fellow writers! Just because someone submits a “produced” song, does not mean that they have deep pockets NOR does it mean they are a production genious savvy with multiple instruments.
I say this because this is NOT THE CASE for me, and I venture to say that I am not alone. In fact, please be aware of the circumstances/history behind these submissions, and other submissions that are “more produced”, and know that we are all entering a contest such as this because our songwriting dream has yet to come true! So, please give those of us that DID NOT submit a raw song a little love!
If I had financial resources, computer where-with-all and played an instrument, I would have easily entered a recently written song inspired by the Melinda DooLittles of the world. In fact, I have 4 or five songs in bits and pieces on paper around the house. However, given the above mentioned limitations, I was not able to bring them to life at the current time. Believe me, I contemplated singing them acapella, but could not figure how the heck to do this with my computer. Again, I tried.
So, I hope you understand the need to stand up for us submitters that may appear to be “selling out” by submitting a fully produced song!
In many cases, like mine, we simply had no other choice than to submit a song that was already in our repertoire that, in our hearts, appeared to fit this opportunity.
Besides, a good song is a good song! These reps have the ability and experience to see through a “produced” song OR a minimally presented raw demo, to uncover hit potential! And, let’s give the public a little credit, they have a bit more insight than we may think!
So, for the first time around, given the nature of this novel contest, and rather “time-crunched” parameters, I encourage all of us to be open minded.
Once again, like I said up front, I am not arguing that, in the spirit of the contest and for America to see “the process”, that next year a guideline should be set in place that advocates a raw demo vibe. I get this.
However, for today, I would like to feel that we are all in the same boat, excited for the awesome opportunity to be part of something like this. After all, isn’t this what all of us songwriters have been secretly wondering about and hoping for? A chance to make the public aware of this “behind the scenes” often unappreciated, misunderstood element of the making of an Artist-A GREAT SONG.
THANKS for letting me share my perspective.
My Best To Each and Everyone of us!
April 21st, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Q:Who would be best at singing your contest entry song?
The Males:
Blake Lewis
Chris Richardson
Phil Stacey
The Females:
Jordin Sparks
LaKisha Jones
Melinda Doolittle
One of these six will sing the winning song.
I have a feeling the winner will be one of the females.
I think Simon’s crew has the same feeling.
I don’t think we’ll be hearing any country songs in the top 20 either.
Honestly I don’t think it would be that hard to sort through 20,000 songs for this thing.
Right off the bat you scrap the country, alternative, heavy and hard rock stuff. I really really doubt you will hear anything that was produced rough with only a guitar and vocals or the like unless it was absolutely a killer of a song so scrap all those to. Scrap all the I have a dream and I’m proud stuff. Now there should only be a pile of a few hundred songs or so.
The title of each song is one of if not THE most important components so let’s scrap anything that isn’t interesting like “I’m in love”, “I love you” etc.
Is the title original? (did you google your title to see how many songs came up with the same title?) Origanlality is more important than ever, we don’t want someone accidentaly buying someones elses song thinking it was yours.
If the title isn’t in the Chorus of the song, scrap it.
OK, now we have a couple hundred! Does the song follow 1 of the following 4 successful song structures?
1-Verse Chorus Verse Chorus
2-Verse Chorus Verse Chorus Bridge Chorus
3-Verse Chorus Verse Chorus Verse Chorus
4-Verse Verse Bridge Verse
Scrap those songs that don’t have one of the above.
Is the intro to the song more than 8 bars? Scrap it if more than 8.
Does each Chorus have the same melody and lyrics?
If not scrap it.
Are we down to a hundred songs yet?
You think I’m crazy?
This is exactly what’s going on this very moment, and that was just a drop in the bucket of things to look and listen for.
There are always plenty of contests and ways to get your songs heard so please don’t take it personal if your song is not in the top 20. Take what you’ve learned and your next song will be so much better.
For those who say “taking it too seriously” well, do it right or don’t do it at all. Be a perfectionist or at least try to be, nothing is perfect. Do you know how many songs even a professional songwriter writes before he/she gets one that is chart worthy? A LOT! Practice makes …..well’ perfect!
April 21st, 2007 at 8:01 pm
I love hearing everyones submissions, especially love the Veltz family, seen them a couple of times play, awesome http://www.ann, if anyone would liek to hear our submission check it out at afleshler.com/LiVE_.html
April 21st, 2007 at 8:04 pm
Wow - I finally found people who are willing to come out and say “I didn’t like other peoples’ submissions”! Thank goodness; I thought I was the only one.
Not that I’m cocky or confident that my own submission was so great. It’s “ear candy” too. It has to be ear candy or the general public won’t vote for it even if it does make the Top 20. This is a business, folks, and the business of selling music to America involves creating songs America will buy.
For me, I’m just happy that my co-writer and I wrote the song about 15 years ago while in college (as opposed to writing it specifically for AI). She wrote the words for her mother’s 50th birthday and asked me to write some music for it. So the lyrics do not revolve around “journies” and “I’m a star” and “proud” and all the other things that were purported here to be “cheesy”.
Who knows? Maybe the fact that our song was not written for Idol will differentiate it enough to make the Top 20… then again, if it does I rather wonder if America would want to “buy” it over the “cheesy” - yet applicable to Idol - lyrics.
So now you can give me your opinion if you like. Here’s the Chorus to “Here For You”:
I WILL NEVER FORGET THE TIMES YOU PULLED ME THROUGH;
THE TIMES I LAUGHED AND CRIED WITH YOU.
THROUGH THE UPS AND DOWNS THAT WE’VE BEEN THROUGH
I WILL ALWAYS BE HERE FOR YOU
April 21st, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Molly - I agree with you. This is like playing the lottery and the fun part of this opportunity is the “what if” scenarios that constantly go through a songwriters mind. This is not unlike the AI contestents each year that crowd the country’s arena’s every fall audition for the next season). We’re all in one of those “virtual” stadiums right now, folks waiting to hear the words “you’re going to Hollywood!”.
My opinion is that a songwriter that can capture that theme AI is looking for, have a fresh sound with a “hook”, and still have a song with commercial appeal will be the one’s making the Top 20. There are many songs here with “cliche” lyrics (mine included). While I don’t think that’s to the point of being “cringeworthy” to the general public, I do think AI will choose songs where the writers are able to go beyond that yet capture the above.
Laura of the Valdez family: I really liked “My Life Is Mine”. You may very well be in that niche I describe above (but that’s my opinion and everybody has one of those!). The only thing I didn’t like about the song was the part of the video where the Penguins scored on my Philadelphia Flyers. :-0
April 21st, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Molly-
I hear you, but I don’t think any of us who have talked about writing a good lyric are advocating heavy-handed, Shakespearian, high-brow garble-degook. What a bore. I agree…
But if we are all looking to improve our craft (I know I am), then we have to take seriously what seriously successful songwriters are telling us. I believe you can even find somewhere on Joe Taylor’s site here an article about lyric writing that says a great song will take the listener someplace and let them experience it for themselves. What’s more interesting…”fifty miles of whiskey shots to numb the pain” or “the road was tough”? Again, it’s not Shakespeare. To address your point about people wanting someone to understand their hardships (or their joys or whatever), a lyric that cuts TO core, not one that cuts OUT the core, is what people want. At least, that’s what I want and that’s how I write. I have a fondness for this discussion board because people have been willing to respectfully challenge some ideas of what good songwriting is… Over at the AI discussion, everyone believes that everyone’s song should win. That’s because they all sound the same and say the same things in the same ways. I don’t think that helps anyone improve their craft. You might as well just spin the wheel and see which song it lands on because it just doesn’t matter.
April 21st, 2007 at 8:27 pm
Pete man, you must have stayed up all night to write that one…lol
April 21st, 2007 at 8:33 pm
Ok …enough of me commenting on everyone’s songs.
It’s only fair I supply you with a link to my entries.
They aren’t that great either, there are many mistakes I described in my previous post. This is how we learn, admit the mistakes and fix them. So rip my songs apart… tell the honest truth. It’s the only way we as songwriters can tell how we are doing. Don’t ask your friends and family if they like your song. Of course they will be polite….
http://www.myspace.com/182839965
Thanks for listening!
April 21st, 2007 at 8:33 pm
Trish and/or Ben Ireland,
I didn’t say there would not be any further paperwork to sign. I said there would be no further negotiations. I am sure Simon Fuller and his staff will give me about 45 seconds to decide if I want to accept his terms or hit the road. He has about 10,00 songwriter eager to take my place in line.
Tony,
With all due respect, I think writing a great and commercially viable song is not the sausage-making process you describe. Just my opinion. For this competition, I put my chorus (because it has the strongest melodic hook and best lyrics) first, with no intro at all. Why? Because THAT, and not one of 4 song structures, is what they said they are looking for. I wanted to make it real easy for them to find what they are looking for.When in doubt, read the directions.
April 21st, 2007 at 9:05 pm
I would like to point out that nothing I typed up in my last comment was intended to be taken as a direct attack on any music that anyone submitted here in this forum. I listened to many submissions in other forums that people had posted, and I stayed silent in those areas because I frankly had nothing nice to say. The reason I choose to post comments in this forum as opposed to any of the others is it appears the most reputable, as made so by the apparent capable intellect of you readers and musicians also posting comments on this site. My apologies for any misunderstanding if there were any.
April 21st, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Dave V,
I’m not sure why you think I said you said there would not be any more paper work. Lots of people had concerns whether 19Entertainment would contact them beforehand. Just putting in my 2 cents about what I thought the T&C had to say about it. Sorry if you felt attacked.
April 21st, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Just to clarify,
I didn’t mean to suggest that people shouldn’t take their own songwriting seriously, I meant this contest in particular. As has been stated, the bar is not very high (when you think of previous year’s selections) and though it would be nice to think that the producers are trying to change that, it’s more likely that they’re just trying to find another way to promote the show and the single.
The “rules” for writing the lyrics suggested all of the things that people have mentioned in this thread as being cliched (taking a journey, making dreams come true). They said this is what they’re actually looking for.
When I was writing my song, part of the fun was being able to use those types of senarios that are so engrained in us, and normally avoided in ’serious’ songwriting at all costs.
At the end of the day, I think most people are just looking for a hook they can really get into, something they can sing along with, and something that makes sense to them.
I’ve spent a lot of time today listening to submissions from various people, and while many of them are quite good, so many have such a personal component to it that it’s hard to imagine an American Idol contestant singing them. It’s one thing when you’re writing songs for yourself, that convey a situation and time that you’ve been through. But when you’re writing for a singer who is (likely) younger and in a completely different place in their life (like being a finalist on AI, for one) they’re not going to have the same story to tell.
The nature of this particular contest suggests that the more generic theme is going to be the most accessible and approachable.
On a different note, I’m curious to know how people think they’re going to handle choosing the top 20. I have my theory, but I’d love to hear others.
Personally, I think they are going to eliminate the majority based purely on the lyrics. It’s going to take too much time to listen to all of the songs, and reading the lyrics is the quickest way to know if a song is even worth listening to.
This is where I’ve been debating - the listening stage. Part of me thinks that maybe they’ll only give each song 30 secs. in order to move through them all. However, everyone knows that the major hook usually comes in the chorus, so perhaps they’ll listen all the way through til then? I know, for my submission in particular, it all happens in the chorus. If they give it 30 secs. I can be sure I wasted $10.
Any one else have different thoughts?
__
Molly.
http://www.myspace.com/mollysamericanidoldreams
April 21st, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Hi All, small correction to Johnny’s message above… the link to hear our idol song is http://www.annafleshler.com/LiVE_.html
good job everyone! We are ALL playing our part in history.
April 21st, 2007 at 10:02 pm
Alright - I wrote a song for the contest even though I know I have much better songs. I followed the directions about writing for the contest and found that my song sounded just like all the other ones submitted.
Here’s a myspace page….
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=182812163
April 21st, 2007 at 10:07 pm
I second that Eric!
I’m not knocking anyone…more like trying to help all of us and pointing out general text book songwriting facts. Unfortunately it is a “sausage making process” when you are trying to get into the biz. Once you make a name for yourself you can overstep the boundries I mentioned earlier. A key note is that listening to all these songs has been awesome and entertaining and that’s what’s it’s all about!
April 21st, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Eric/Tony:
No offense taken from my end. Your observations are quite valid. Pop/Commerical music is inofitself a repeatable phenomenon (how many songs have been written in the I-IV-V progression over the past 40 years!?). Lyrical content falls into that same category (IMO). I still stand by my opinions on what I think AI will be looking for, but that’s anyone’s guess since we don’t have an example yet of a Top 20 candidate.
If I had the answer for writing the perfect song with the perfect lyrical content, I wouldn’t be working in Corporate America . . :-). I’ve really enjoyed listening to multiple original material in various postings and links today — it amazes me the amount of untapped talent out here.
BTW - someone posted a comment a day or two ago referencing a book on music writing. Would that person mind reposting? I must be missing it in the large stream of posts.
Thanks!
Joe V.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:09 am
Enjoying all of the posts and listening to some of the entries. I’m having problems listening to some of the myspace postings though. Do you need to be a member in order to listen, because I can’t seem to get most of them to play (only those that offer the option to download)?
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:12 am
Hahaha…..group therapy…!! Thanks Joe T. for moderating the site….and again….19Entertainment for providing a couple of weeks of fun for everyone. All the Best.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:13 am
A very good book for songwriters is:
“6 Steps to songwriting success” by David Blume
If you are serious about songwriting cough up the $22 and get this book or one like, there are many.
I wrote 11 songs more than 4 years ago and I wrote them without knowing anything except from what I learned by listening to and playing music my whole life. I was only 1/2 way through this book when I heard about AI’s contest and did’nt have time to put my new knowledge to work and rewrite my material.
While reading a book like this you will realize you have been doing most of these things all along but now you will know why. You will also learn a lot of new skills.
If I had read any books like this 10 years ago I can imagine how much better my songs would be today!
Obviously reading a book does’nt make you a professional songwriter but if you incorporate these skills into your craft you will have an edge on those who are writing blind like I did before this read.
We all agree that songwriting is an art and there isn’t any 1 set way to make music. However for those of us trying to break into the business you must give in and follow the rules. There are different rules for different types of music. Country music has different structure than Pop and Rap well, they forgot the C infront of that word. …lol Hoope this info helps some of you. Good Luck!
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:21 am
Hi everyone!
I would certainly love any comments you might have on my submission since I’m continually working on it, and any feedback would be invaluable.
Thanks!!
http://www.myspace.com/mollysamericanidoldreams
Molly
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:33 am
ps….I think they will listen to at least 1 min. of every song submitted. 19Entertainment has tapped into part of a unique market because of the popularity of the American Idol TV show. At the price of working an A&R staff to the bone….they may find several diamonds in the rough. More than enough value to make their time listening well spent.
I doubt they will eliminate any song for any reason without that ~1min listening. They(19Entertainment) will encounter a dilemma if they find some wonderful and maybe great ….but very rough songs….that they know are winners….but that if they don’t have them “tweaked” before the contest….have little chance with the public voting.
There are many equitable solutions to this problem to the benefit of all concerned. And “problem” is the wrong word.
They will have the Top20 category for sure and the contest will be decided at stated. But….they may be making many more subcategories within their organization…
I could be very wrong….it’s happened before…ha.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:34 am
I believe the book BonJoeV is referring to in #65 is “All You Need to Know About the Music Business” by Donald S. Passman, who is one of the top entertainment lawyers in the business. The emphasis is more on the needs of performers than songwriters, but it does cover things of direct interest to a songwriter, such as copyrights and publishing.
Per the terms and conditions of the AI song contest, anyone who is offered a spot in the final 20 will have to sign a publishing agreement with 19 Entertainment in order to continue. (It should be assumed that this contract will continue to be in force even if you aren’t the winner.) Given the time frame involved, you probably won’t have much time to review this contract and make your decision. You definitely should have it reviewed by a qualified lawyer, but it doesn’t hurt to know as much as you can yourself about legalities and contracts. Some things to consider…
1) You will be signing over the copyright (or, specifically, the publlishing portion of it) to the publisher. They won’t “own” your song; you’re still the author and still have certain rights. But you will be granting them the exclusive right to grant licenses for use of the song and to collect monies. That’s not a small thing.
2) There is no such thing as a “standard” contract when it comes to songwriter/publisher deals. There may be certain terms and conditions that are common or usual; but no entire contract is a legal or industry “standard”. So, if they tell you, “Oh, it’s just a standard contract; you don’t have to worry; go ahead and sign it”, don’t believe it. In fact, if someone does say that, then be scared…be very, very scared…and triplecheck everything ten times.
3) Be certain that there is a reversion clause that returns ownership of the copyright to you after a reasonable period of time (the ten years referenced in their t’s and c’s is excessive) and/or under certain conditions (e.g. if after three years there has been no commercial recording by a major label). Publishers don’t like this sort of thing, but it is common, reasonable, and in your best interests.
4) The t’c and c’s stated that in their contract the songwriter royalty share would be 75%. That’s very generous, by industry standards, particularly for a previously unknown writer. But the question is, 75% of what? They have not said what the royalty rate would be. The benchmark is usually 3/4 of the statutory rate (currently 9.1 cents). However, you need to be careful that there is no “sweetheart” deal between the publisher and the record label. If they happen to be part of the same corporate entity, or in collusion for other purposes, the publisher just might give the song away for a ridiculously low royalty rate, and you’ll end up with 75% of next-to-nothing. Be sure there is language in the contract to cover this, such as specification of a minimum royalty rate.
There’s a lot more to consider, and to be careful about. What they are probably counting on is that the 20 finalists will be so enamored of this opportunity, and so desparate for a break, that they will be willing to sign almost anything, no questions asked. So be careful. Of course, it’s just one song. They’re not asking you to sign away your whole catalog or give them first right of refusal on every future song you write. (At least, I don’t think they are. That’s something else for you to check.) Maybe it’s worth it to you to take the chance. However, after one brief dazzling moment of fame, you could find yourself flipping burgers for the next ten years and wondering about what might have been. It’s happened before.
Bob
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:38 am
A week ago when I was still having no success trying to upload my song, I sent an angry email to the 19 Entertainment email address that somebody in this forum gave us (thanks), in which I said something about how Seacrest said on the show that so far about 5,000 songs have been submitted and that I didn’t believe it because so many people are having problems with their inferior website (”your inferior website” was what I put in the Subject line of the email) and I asked what kind of scam are they running.
Well, yesterday I finally got a reply and they told me that it wasn’t a website problem but a Hotmail problem (whatever, I only used Hotmail to send this email, not for their contest) and……………that they received OVER 25,000 SUBMISSIONS.
Wow.
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:23 am
You know, I think all of us are going to have wonderful fodder for “waiting” songs, by the time the results are known.
I’ve been listening to my MP3 a lot, trying to cure msyelf of the “cringe” factor, and it’s helping a bit. I’m a little less mortified, now. In my case, I don’t even play an instrument–the accompaniment was provided by my 13-year-old on keyboard. He recorded it on a hand-held tape player, and not only did it come out distorted but it dropped a tone so it’s a little low for my voice.
I have to keep reminding myself of the all-things-considered factor. As in: all things considered, I did my best. And then let it go. I’ll let people know if it works. So far, not so much.
Good luck everybody, and thanks for keeping the chatter going, here. It helps a lot.
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:48 am
BonJoeV:
Hey! We’re neighbors…I live in Woodbury. I was so surprised when I went to your site. I LOVE your Go Twins song! I almost entered that contest. Peril…Cheryl….really fun! Have they announced a winner yet?
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:15 pm
Uuh……..okay, I guess I’ll try again with this posting. My last one apparantly didn’t make the “moderation” cut, whatever that means. It’s fun to sit here for twenty minutes and compose a message only for it to wind up on the ash heap of cyberspace limbodom. But I digress….
To repeat, last week when I was still having no success uploading my song, I sent an angry email to the 19 Entertainment people (to the address given to us by someone on this forum, thanks dude), saying something like “……….Seacrest said the other night that there have been 5,000 submissions so far but I don’t believe it because I know many many people that are having major difficulties uploading their songs on your inferior website (”your inferior website” was what I put in the Subject line), what kind of scam are you guys running?” Okay, I should have taken a breath before sending that.
Anyway, yesterday I finally got a reply.
They told me that it was not a website glitch but a problem with Hotmail (whatever, I only used Hotmail for this email and not for the contest) and that ………OVER 25,000 SONGS WERE SUBMITTED
Wow.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Ann,
Funny that you’re listening to your song often to reduce the “cringe” factor. That usually works — literally, the more often you listen to music with mistakes/issues, the more accustomed you become to hearing the problems and eventually you stop hearing them as problems; they sound “normal”.
I’ve been cursed by this phenomenon. I’ve listened to some of my music in the past so often during mixing that I’ve forgotten the real “problems” and let them stay there. Fortunately, I have a select group of friends who will make me painfully aware of musical deficiencies with no hesitation.
Yet — in the case of my Idol submission, I can hear the problems every single time I listen to it, and they don’t seem to be going away. Maybe that’s because it’s the first time I’m asking someone to listen to it critically (as opposed to “for entertainment”).
So good luck with your cure technique. Hope it works for you.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Oops, my bad. Patience, grasshopper.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:02 pm
I wrote a song called “Carousels (Dreaming of Tomorrow)” a couple of months ago. It’s an upbeat pop/rock tune. I wrote it as a duet and had my friends sing it. We recorded it in my living room but then I had a pro EQ out the buzz noise. Turned out pretty catchy which I think is what AI is wanting.
You can listen to it here: http://www.daveplantz.com/carousels.mp3
Dave
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:47 pm
BonJoeV
I believe the book they are referencing is
“All You Need To Know About The Music Business� by Donald S Passman.
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Here is a song I submitted:
http://SuperwomanSong.com
April 22nd, 2007 at 4:16 pm
I submitted http://DiamondSong.com